December 11, 2024

Data Insights – Best Practices For Working With Your eDiscovery Partner

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Kevin Skrzysowski

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December 11, 2024

On Episode #30 of the Alternative Litigation Strategies podcast, host Kevin Skrzysowski sits down with author and technology evangelist W. Curtis Preston to discuss the latest eDiscovery challenges, strategies, and best practices for law firms and in-house legal departments.  Kevin and Curtis discuss what surprises lawyers the most about eDiscovery, the challenges of extracting backup information, the increasing complexity of dealing with mobile devices, and best practices for selecting and working with your eDiscovery provider. 

This transcript has been lightly edited for grammar and clarity.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Welcome to the 30th episode of Certum Group’s podcast, Alternative Litigation Strategies, where I interview industry leaders in the legal marketplace from the top companies, firms, and academic institutions across the country. On this program, we discuss the latest trial strategies and trends impacting the litigation industry. I’m your host, Kevin Skrzysowski, a Director with the litigation consulting firm, Certum Group, where we specialize in working with businesses and their outside counsel to mitigate cap and transfer litigation outcome risk through our suite of finance and insurance solutions.

Today we have a very interesting program because we’re going to dive into a topic we’ve never covered on this program before, and that is the latest e-discovery challenges, strategies, pitfalls, and best practices that law firms should be aware of today. And to discuss this topic, I am pleased to be joined by W. Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup, a technology evangelist with S2DATA, an author of four books on modern data production, and the host of the podcast, The Backup Wrap-up. Curtis, thank you for joining the program today.

W. Curtis Preston:

Anytime, glad to be here.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Curtis, maybe it would be a good idea if we started just by you telling us about the current business you’re involved in, S2DATA, and the range of services that you provide.

W. Curtis Preston:

So we like to talk about turning difficult things into opportunity. We tackle a lot of the really difficult technical problems that are behind a lot of different things. One part of the company specializes in the legal side of things, which is what we’re going to be talking about today, electronic discovery. On that side, we also do forensic services, imaging, every kind of computing type device, which is a giant tent that includes everything from a cell phone to a dash cam, right?

And then on the other side, we also work with IT departments that are managing their legacy data. So in our world, what that means is just as companies move forward in technology, they often buy new things, right? They buy new services, they move from this backup software to that backup software, and that leaves behind other sort of orphaned technology, which we call legacy technology. And then we help them manage the part of their company that perhaps a significant part of their IT department doesn’t know how to manage. So, we help with that as well.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

So really a full service, service 360 degree, e-discovery and computer technology services that you provide. Now, since we’re going to focus really on the legal industry today, can you tell us a little bit about what percentage of your client base are law firms and/or in-house counsel, and what are some of the particular services that you offer to them?

W. Curtis Preston:

Yeah, so I’m going to say it’s probably 60/40. That is a very unscientific number based on the fact that I don’t run the books. So based on what I see in the meetings, right? We spend a lot of time in our meetings talking about the various e-discovery services that we’re providing, and we spend a lot of time talking to lawyers, either in-house counsel, or third-party counsel to help people with those types of things.

And when we look at those, I’d say the biggest service that we’re providing is this, a client has been presented with an e-discovery request, and they either don’t have the resources to do it, or they are presented with a significant, and then we’ll talk about this, I’m sure, significant technical challenge in satisfying that request. Right? So we’ll step in and basically get all of the data that they need to get. We do that in such a way that we have a very documented and proven methodology, and we can then provide the data and we can provide an affidavit as to how that data was procured. And even depending on the client, even testifying on the stand if that’s necessary.

And then also very closely related to that but on the back end, very different, is this idea of forensic discovery. So if there’s a lawsuit or a potential lawsuit, then what we’re able to do is take, as I was saying before, phones, laptops, dash cams, security systems, any sort of thing that’s recording data and then storing it electronically. We can image that. One of the biggest things, I think there is text messages. So there are a lot of lawsuits that come down to who said what to when, and text messages are the modern equivalent to email. Email, of course, would be the biggest thing that we’re pulling out of a typical e-discovery request, but text messages you can retrieve directly from a cell phone.

And then we also have, as part of that service, one of the challenges is that when the text messages come out, they’re kind of ugly. They’re often in a spreadsheet, which is the way most people do it, but we’ve figured out a way to present them back to the client and therefore be able to present in court to look like the way they would have looked on the cell phone with… You’re familiar with the green on the left and the blue on the right, all that stuff?

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Sure.

W. Curtis Preston:

Preserving the order of the conversation and who said what and when and how, and we’re able to do that as well.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Very interesting. I want to dive into some of the technical challenges that firms face and I want to talk a little bit more about specific challenges around text messages. But before we get there, can you just perhaps give us in just layman’s terms, an overview of what the e-discovery process really looks like?

W. Curtis Preston:

Yeah, so on your side, it’s pretty straightforward. We need all of the emails that Curtis wrote in the last five years that contain these three words, right? Or we just need all of the emails, we’re not sure what to look for but we need all of the emails written from Curtis to Steve. The requests can be all sorts of different filters. Before any discovery request comes in, a company is on a very regular basis, just any company or governmental organization, or a non-profit, they are most likely any reasonable company is backing up their data.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Backing up the data, right.

W. Curtis Preston:

Yeah, on a regular basis they’re doing it, and they’re typically doing it actually every day, right? So you’ll do a full backup, which would back up everything. You do that every so often, and then every day you’re doing what we would call an incremental backup, backing up the data that’s changed. And you’ve been doing that and you hold onto that data for, in my opinion, far longer than you should, unless you have some sort of regulatory reason to hold onto it. But people will hold onto that data for five years, seven years, whatever, maybe even 10 years. And then you get this discovery question that says, we’ll pull out all the emails from Curtis to Steve.

The problem is that, two things, one is, again, speaking specifically in the US, right? The FRCP guidelines say that if you’ve got the data, you have to surrender it, right? It doesn’t say, well, if you’ve got the data but it’s in an inconvenient format, you don’t have to surrender it, right? But the problem is that the data is stored in backup format, which was never intended to be used as a source for e-discovery. It’s meant to be used as a way to bring back your server to the way it looked yesterday, or bring back your laptop because you dropped it and it shattered into a million pieces. That’s the purpose of backup.

And so when an e-discovery request comes in, the process of pulling the data out of these, just to speak specifically of email, pulling email out of the backup is an incredibly huge, very painful process that can take many, many months using many, many people. And also, a significant amount of resources from a technical perspective, meaning the hardware, the computers, and the storage and the tapes and the disks, all of that. It requires a significant amount of resource, much more than they would typically do in a typical week.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

And what I think I’m hearing from you is that there’s tapes and there’s disks, there may be cloud storage. So I know having worked for many legal information technology companies for last 20, 25 years, they invest or reinvest in different enterprise software and computer systems. I would imagine that these systems have changed over time and now you have to go back and try to extract that data from many different formats, from many different systems, through many different filters. Is that one of the main challenges?

W. Curtis Preston:

I’d say, yes, that is definitely one of the challenges-

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Sure.

W. Curtis Preston:

… in that, the more often you’ve switched up your backup technology, the more often you’ve changed it up. You talked about changing the backup software, you talk about moving to one of the big tape drives that we use, it’s called LTO. That’s easily the predominant tape technology for the last 10, 15 years. But there’s LTO-1, 2, 3, 4, all the way up to LTO-9, and you move forward in these tape drives in order to keep up with the latest technology. And you cannot read, for example, an LTO-1 tape and even an LTO-4 drive. There is a certain amount that you can do, but the more tapes you have and the more often you’ve changed it over the years, the more complicated the process becomes.

But the real challenge is not so much the hardware, it’s actually the software. Again, going back to what I was saying earlier, that the problem is that the format that it’s put onto tape or onto disk or in the cloud, the format was never written or stored in a way to allow you to retrieve it the way a lawyer is looking for. You go to pick your favorite backup software product with I’d say one exception, I can think of one backup product, if you purchase their extra feature that they have. Most backup products, if you go to it, there is no interface to go to say, give me all of the emails from Curtis to Steve for the last three years. It just doesn’t exist.

So what you end up having to do is, let’s say you’ve got a request for three years worth of emails. You go to three years ago and you restore your entire email system to the way it looked three years ago, and obviously you’re not doing this to your production system, you’re doing this to some alternate system. So of course this means more resources. You’re restoring it to that system and then you’ll extract from that system, you just start up this email server and you run a search against the email server for what it is that you’re looking for, and you create, a common format would be a PST file, in Exchange. So you create this Exchange file that contains the emails that you were looking for from three years ago, and this is going to take you many, many hours, maybe days, depending on your level of competence and resources you have available to you. And then you do three years minus a week ago, and you do the whole process again, and then you do three years minus two weeks ago, and you do the whole process again.

And so you’re doing, if you’ve got a weekly full backup of Exchange, which Exchange is a very common email backup system, if you’ve got a weekly full backup of Exchange, you’re looking at 52 times three, all restores of your system, followed by an extraction each time. It is an incredible process that needs a significant amount of hardware, a significant amount of time and expertise, because this is a very complicated process that you need to be able to defend in court. And so it’s just, the problem is really that you’re using a tool that was never designed to do what you need it to do in order to do what you need to do.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

It sounds like almost every matter almost takes a Herculean effort to compile all this so that it’s in a usable and digestible format and can be shared in discovery.

W. Curtis Preston:

I may sound like Henny Penny here, but it’s a significant effort. It’s so easy for a lawyer to say, “Hey, here’s the e-discovery request. Hey IT guys, go figure that out.”

The other part of this that, yes, just number one, it is a really difficult, technologically challenging problem because the product that you’re using to do it was never designed to do what you want it to do. But number two, you also typically have in today’s environment, IT departments with zero resources because they’re already stretched thin, and so they barely have the resources to accomplish what it is that they’re supposed to be doing. And then on top of that, you give them this Herculean effort.

So it’s a real challenge, and either one of two things happens. Either basically the IT department gets the significant impact to them and they’re able to do it in a, what a judge considers to be an acceptable amount of time, or they could actually take too long or make mistakes. So that would be the worst, is make mistakes along the way, and your risk is you get an adverse inference instruction from the judge that basically is the death knell of a lawsuit, right? Say, look, nobody could be this bad at reading their tapes, just assume that they’re trying to hide something, right? And there’s a famous case or infamous case with Morgan Stanley versus Coleman Holdings back in 2005 where that exactly happened and they lost a $2 billion lawsuit as a result. So, that’s sort of the problem.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Now, and e-discovery has been around for a number of years, but I would imagine when you’re working directly with attorneys and you’re trying to explain how labor-intensive this is, how many resources it requires, how many different iterations of hardware and software you need to perform this function, they must be quite surprised at the length of time, especially when you’re dealing with lawyers, especially partners who are used to giving an assignment to an associate and say, “Draft this brief, or give me a reply and I need it by the morning.” Right?

W. Curtis Preston:

Yeah, here, go figure it out. Yeah.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Do you find that this is incredibly surprising to lawyers and it’s challenging for them to digest?

W. Curtis Preston:

It is, it’s challenging for a couple of reasons. One, it requires understanding some rather technical nuances, right? And also, IT people, I mean, I love them, they’re my people, okay? I’ve been in IT for over 30 years. We kind of have a history of going, oh, that’s really hard. I don’t want to do it. Right? And so that doesn’t help. And so what they hear when an IT person is trying to say, “Look, what you’re asking me to do is actually really, really difficult.” I think the very natural response is to not believe it or to think that they’re exaggerating it.

And I guess what I’m trying to do, and by the way, I’ve always had this. I’ve worked for S2 now for about nine months, and it’s not like I’m just now singing this tune. I’ve been talking about this for years, that backup was never intended to do e-discovery. And what I’ve historically been pushing people to do is if they’ve got a reason to keep data for many, many years. To not use the backup system, to use a different kind of system, which is called an email archive system, but nobody’s been listening to me. So the vast majority of the IT departments, they don’t have the time or the budget to create an entirely separate system just in the, I don’t know what the… Hopes is the wrong word, in the thought that they might someday get an e-discovery request, right? They’ll just say, “Look, we’ll just do backup.” And then they also get surprised when they find out just how difficult it is. So yeah, IT departments are surprised. So the lawyers, if they’ve never interacted directly with their IT department with an e-discovery requests, I do think lawyers are quite surprised.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

And then how do you get the information so that it’s actually in a usable, shareable format in discovery? I mean, when lawyers are doing discovery, they do a request for production of documents, requests for emission interrogatories, and it’s simple like English prose, it’s just English language written down on a page and they can read the answers to it. When they’re doing an e-discovery and they’re trying to extract emails from many years ago that might be on a tape, what does the information look like when it comes out and how do you get it so that it just looks like written English language and can be shared during the discovery process?

W. Curtis Preston:

Yeah, so you need some type of format of a file that we can all agree on. Usually, 90% of the time we’re talking about Exchange, which is, it’s either Exchange or it’s Exchange replacement, which is Microsoft 365, which is their cloud version of that. But all of these can be exported into a format, a common format would be a PST. That is a format of a file that could be fed into a review platform that then allows them to sort and play with it and search against it easily. It is English. You can open up, you can take Outlook, which is a piece of software to read email, and you can open a PST file and you can look at it and it all looks normal and you see emails and you can search against it. But what most people are going to do is they’re going to take that and import that into a review platform. And there are several of those out there. But the hard part is getting it out of the very proprietary backup format and into that exportable format.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Understood, okay. Now we’re talking about emails that are exchanged, or maybe there’s some other types of communication systems within the enterprise of the law firm or the corporate legal department. You had mentioned cell phones earlier, that’s a whole nother animal. I mean, those are not connected, hardwired to the communications infrastructure necessarily in a firm, right? These are going through another proprietary network of cell towers. How do you deal with that problem? And then, what about the issue where people might be using their personal phones for business use, and how does that fall under the guise of e-discovery, and what unique challenges does that present?

W. Curtis Preston:

Yeah, that’s a great question and there’s no easy answer, right? And I don’t think I have a good answer there, in terms of the personal cell phone. I will say that even if you’re using a personal cell phone for company work, the data that’s on that phone is still company property and I would think, this is more a legal question than a technical question, and that is that you could certainly attempt as opposing counsel, you could say, “I want everything that every time this guy was texting this guy, I want all those, even if it’s on personal cell phones.” And I would think that you would probably be able to demand that discovery.

Where I really come in is assuming that has happened, whether it’s a personal cell phone or a company’s cell phone, how do you get those messages? There’s two ways. One is, you can actually subpoena the communications company and potentially get the data that way. But another and probably more common way, and this is where we get involved, is you just get that phone. Right?

Kevin Skrzysowki:

You physically get the phone.

W. Curtis Preston:

You physically take that phone for a period of time and you extract directly from that phone. Again, this is highly specialized, requires very expensive software to extract that data off that phone. And then you have, you talk about human readable, it’s human readable, but it’s not very pretty. Think of a spreadsheet, which is what typically does, but we’ve figured out a way to present that in a much more human readable format, where it’s literally just an image that you can see who behind and what the conversation was.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Almost like screenshots, yeah, like a rolling screenshot and reverse chronological.

W. Curtis Preston:

Right.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Okay. So you’ve raised a lot of the unique challenges that law firms and in-house departments are facing today, and a lot of the pitfalls to try to avoid. If you were to sum up, just what do you think is the biggest challenge that is facing law firms today when it comes to e-discovery? And how does S2DATA solve it? What would that be?

W. Curtis Preston:

Yeah, so I’m going to say that it’s the format, the backup format that most of the data that you’re trying to extract is sitting in, right? It’s sitting in this very proprietary format on a tape drive or a disk or a cloud, and it’s in this weird format that most people are not going to be able to read. And then if you’re using the backup software to try to do it, the backup software was never designed to do it, so it doesn’t know what to do. And so like I said earlier, you’re presented with a Herculean task, I love your term there. Presented with a Herculean task of just doing it over and over and over again and extracting the data. It is a huge task to do.

The way we’ve figured out to do is we have figured out how to go directly at the data, basically just ignoring the backup software that wrote the data in the first place. We’ve written proprietary software that knows how to directly read the backup disk or tape where that data happens to reside, and we’re able to directly extract. You can tell us, “We’re looking for PDFs with this name, we’re looking for emails from Curtis,” and we can directly extract that and do this like as a… Before, remember how I said you have to do this full restore and then individual extractions? We’re able to do that as a single pass and do it much literally like an order of magnitude quicker for two reasons.

One is we have this proprietary software that’s written specifically for e-discovery. And two, that we have specialists that this is all they do. And three, we have a ton of hardware, whereas the typical IT department, they have just enough servers and tape drives and storage arrays, whatever it is that they’re using to get the backup done. They have just enough hardware to get the job, their normal everyday job done. We have an entire bank of tape drives that are just in robots and all that kind of stuff that are just sitting there waiting to do e-discovery requests. Right? So we can be doing simultaneous e-discovery requests for multiple clients, and we can automate it in such a way that it can run 24 hours a day. So it’s a purpose built system with a lot of extra hardware and people with expertise, is how we’re solving this problem.

And so, what the customer can do is they can literally say, “We have this e-discovery request. It looks like this. These are the things that we’re supposed to find. Here’s all our tapes, here’s all our disks, whatever it is, and just handle that for us.” And we actually have… Different clients, we work with different ways. Some are, they don’t want their data to leave their building, but some are fine with sending us their backups. We purchased a former bank, so we actually have a vault, an actual vault that we’re storing tapes in. So we take the tapes in, we can do it as a full service where you just send us your backups, we do with them what you want.

We also put all of the data, once we’ve scanned all of the tapes, we extract the metadata. There’s another technical term, so the metadata is all of the information about the emails, right? So the backups, when they were done, who they were from, all of that sort of stuff. We put that data, file names, all of that sort of stuff. We put that up into an online portal that can be searched against for further requests, or we can do this on premises for a customer that doesn’t want send their data out. But basically, you just outsource the entire operation.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Understood. I mean, it sounds like with the proprietary software that you’ve developed, and I’m sure there’s a proprietary algorithm, my words embedded in there, so that you can complete the discovery request. The massive amount of infrastructure that you’ve built and the security that you have in your vault, you’ve really created a best-in-class e-discovery service for law firms and in-house counsel.

W. Curtis Preston:

Yeah, absolutely. And by the way, we even handle encrypted tapes. So for those that don’t know, when you write a backup tape, you can actually encrypt the backups as you’re writing it to tape, and actually the tape drive does that. There’s an encryption key that’s stored somewhere. You give us that key, and we can actually decrypt the tapes, again, without the backup software, which is very nice.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

And now that’s-

W. Curtis Preston:

So-

Kevin Skrzysowki:

… the forensics portion of your business?

W. Curtis Preston:

No, it’s just part of the backup. It’s just part of interfacing with a backup system. A normal backup software product, anytime it wants to interact with encrypted tapes, it has to pass the key to the tape drive and says, “Hey, I need to read this tape. Here’s the key,” and then the tape drive would decrypt it. We just do the same thing. Our proprietary piece of software, which is called TRCS, by the way, T-R-C-S, and it just basically pretends to be the backup software and says, “Hey, we need to read this tape drive. Here’s the key.” Right?

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Well, it sounds like you’ve created some very efficient solutions for very common problems that are plaguing the litigation marketplace. This has been a very interesting conversation, a lot of this I really was unaware of. As we’ve discussed, many lawyers are aware of the complexities of fulfilling and satisfying an e-discovery request. So, if you had maybe one piece of overarching guidance you could give to a firm or in-house counsel to help or to produce a best practices in e-discovery, what would it be?

W. Curtis Preston:

It’ll sound self-serving but it’s still my best advice, and that is, don’t do it yourself. It’s far more complex than you think it is. It’s far more expensive than you think it is to do it yourself. You think you’re saving yourself money by doing it yourself, but it will extend the time out significantly to the point that depending on how things go, you could end up looking like you’re trying to hide something to a judge. And that is, as I mentioned earlier, it’s a disaster. Right?

Kevin Skrzysowki:

That is not good.

W. Curtis Preston:

So if you’ve got a company like S2DATA that can do it for you, it will save you money in the long run and potentially actually help win the case. Now, here’s a perfect thing. Everybody thinks they’re innocent, right? Everybody thinks either they didn’t do it. There’s a million innocent people in prison, right? No company wants to think that they’re the ones that did the thing. They want to thank that the smoking gun email is not there. If that’s truly the case, having a third party go and search all of your backups thoroughly with a proven methodology documented, that you then have either an affidavit or someone testifying on your behalf to say, “Look, this is what we do for a living. We have searched all of the backups. The smoking gun email isn’t there.” That, there’s nothing more powerful than that from a defense standpoint.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

What you’re providing to that business, you’re proving it and you’re giving them the certainty that backs up their belief that they truly are innocent or not liable or right. Right?

W. Curtis Preston:

Absolutely.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

I think that’s an excellent point to finish up on. Well, Curtis, this has been a really interesting conversation. I want to thank you for joining the program today. I appreciate all of the really interesting and valuable insights you provided into the world and the technical challenges of e-discovery. Thanks for being on.

W. Curtis Preston:

Anytime.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

Now, if any members of the audience or any firms or in-house counsel who are listening to this podcast would like to get a hold of you, what would be the best way to reach you?

W. Curtis Preston:

So I’m CPreston@S2data.com. That’s S2, the number two, data.com. We actually have an offer on, so if you go to S2data.com/podcastoffer, I created a, basically, if you’ve got… So many people have a drawer of tapes, a pile of tapes, and they don’t know what’s on them. And you’re like, can these people really just scan my tapes and figure them out? And the answer is, yes. So we have an offer if you go to that, basically, we’ll scan one of those for you for free to show you what we can do and show you how easily we can solve that problem for you.

Kevin Skrzysowki:

I think that’s a great offer. Thanks again for being on, and of course, as always, I want to thank the audience for listening. If you’d like to hear more, please be sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts. And if you’d like to learn more about the litigation, insurance, and funding solutions that Certum Group provides, please visit our website at www.certumgroup.com. That’s C-E-R-T-U-M Group, or you can always reach out to me at KevinS@certumgroup.com. And until next time.

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The parties simply read them differently, which “is, of course, to be expected in any litigation.” Courts may look at incorporated documents, but they may not “take on the role of the jury when doing so.” This matters well beyond software. In trade secret cases, the plaintiff’s best early evidence is often the defendant’s own emails, obtained through pre-suit discovery, a related case, or a whistleblower. Defendants routinely attach those emails to a motion to dismiss and argue an innocent reading. SS&C shuts that down at the pleading stage. Sharing With Customers Under NDA Is Permissible Arcesium argued that Geneva could not be a trade secret because every licensed user had access to the executable software, the integration layer, and the data model. The Second Circuit rejected that argument because it would create “a near-blanket rule that any information shared with a third party cannot be a trade secret.” Adopting the Ninth Circuit’s view, the court held that giving trade secrets to third parties “does not undermine a trade-secret claim, so long as the information was provided on an understanding of confidentiality.” SS&C alleged that Geneva could be accessed only by licensed customers bound by strict non-disclosure and confidentiality provisions. That was enough. For any business that licenses its secret sauce, whether software, data, or processes, this is the right answer and it is now settled in the Second Circuit. Specificity: Enough to Give Notice and No More Arcesium also made the usual argument that SS&C described only “extraordinarily general categories of information.” The court declined to adopt a “general specificity rule.” Following the Third Circuit in Oakwood Laboratories v. Thanoo, it held that a plaintiff “need not spell out the details of the trade secret to avoid dismissal.” The complaint only needs to identify the secret with enough specificity to “place a defendant on notice of the bases for the claim” and let it “ascertain at least the boundaries within which the secret lies.” SS&C met that standard by doing more than listing categories. It described what each component does (for example, the database that stores portfolio, price, and transaction data) and how it is used (for example, the integration layer that lets developers run Geneva functions and move data in and out). The court contrasted that with a complaint that claimed only a “core brand and marketing plan strategy.” The lesson is to describe what the secret does and why it matters, not to disclose the secret itself in a public pleading. “Use” Is Very Broad The Second Circuit had never defined “use” under the DTSA. It now has, and the definition is expansive: “any exploitation of the trade secret that is likely to result in injury to the trade secret owner or enrichment to the defendant.” That includes marketing goods that embody the secret, relying on it to speed up research and development, and soliciting customers with it. Trade secrets “need not be exactly copied,” a product that is merely “similar” can be enough, and the court cited with approval district court cases finding use where a defendant studied the information to “increase his knowledge base.” SS&C’s allegations fit easily: Trinity was built in under three years against Geneva’s decades, Arcesium went live eight months after its CEO said a transition would take at least twelve, and it sold Trinity to Geneva customers as able to mimic Geneva’s functionality. Taken together and against the license restrictions, that stated a claim. Why It Matters The court was careful to say it was not ruling on the merits or on the right reading of the emails, and SS&C still has to prove its case. But at the pleading stage, SS&C v. Arcesium tilts the field toward DTSA plaintiffs in four ways: confidentiality agreements with customers are reasonable measures; specificity means notice, not a blueprint; “use” reaches nearly any exploitation of the secret; and courts may not credit a defendant’s spin on its own documents to end a case early. From a funder’s perspective, that matters. Early dismissal risk is one of the biggest variables in pricing a trade secret case, and this decision meaningfully reduces it for well-pleaded claims in the Second Circuit. Read the Second Circuit’s full opinion HERE . For a deeper look at how we evaluate these cases, see Certum’s Trade Secret Playbook . If you are evaluating a live dispute—or simply want to pressure-test what a matter is worth and how it might be funded—get in touch. A confidential conversation with Certum is free and carries no obligation, whether or not you ultimately seek funding. Reach us at certumgroup.com/contact-us .
By Certum Group Team • November 3, 2026
Certum’s Will Marra published an op-ed in yesterday’s Wall Street Journal drawing lessons from the recent collapse of Weil Gotshal for broader debates about third-party litigation funding and outside investment in law firms. Marra builds on scholarship by John Morley of Yale Law School, who has demonstrated that two legal ethics rules can contribute to the swift collapse of law firms. Those rules are Rule 5.4, which bars non-lawyer investment in law firms, and Rule 5.6, which bars non-competes for lawyers. Marra argues that these two rules affect every firm every day, by making it harder for them to make long-term investments that could reduce the cost of legal services, improve client service, and benefit the civil justice system. Marra suggests that reforming Rules 5.4 and 5.6 could not only help prevent the sudden collapse of the Weils of tomorrow but also improve the legal system writ large. The article is available at this link . For some of Will’s other commentary on litigation finance and the civil justice system, please see the article Litigation Finance in the Market Square , which was co-authored with Certum’s Scholar in Residence, Suneal Bedi , and was published last year by the Southern California Law Review.
By Patrick Dempsey • October 27, 2026
This is the fifth post in Certum Group's seven-part series bringing our Trade Secret Litigation Playbook to the blog. It draws on Part V of the Playbook, Choosing Counsel and Structuring the Economics. Read or download the full Playbook here . The most common mistake I see claim holders make is also the most understandable one: they sign a law firm to a full contingency before they ever talk to a funder. A firm offering to take the whole case on contingency feels like a gift. You spend nothing, the firm carries the risk, and you share the upside only if you win. What could be wrong with that? When you look at cases side by side, quite a lot. A claim holder who engages a funder first and then hires counsel on a hybrid structure typically keeps substantially more of the recovery. To see why, start with the three ways to pay for a case. The three fee structures Hourly is the traditional model: you pay standard rates as the work is done, you own the outcome, and you bear 100% of the cost, win or lose. It fits deep-pocketed companies that want complete control, and smaller matters where alternative structures are hard to price. Full contingency puts the firm's fees entirely at risk, paid only from the recovery, usually at 33% to 40% of whatever comes in. It is attractive when you have limited capital, and the willingness of a good firm to take it is a genuine signal of merit. But it carries a real cost: that 30-to-40-percent-plus is meaningfully more than the combined economics of a hybrid or funded structure. Hybrid — shared risk — is the sweet spot for most matters between roughly $10 million and $250 million. The firm discounts its hourly rate, often steeply, in exchange for a smaller contingent premium on success. It preserves alignment while avoiding the full-contingency tax, and it becomes especially powerful when a funder pays the discounted fees, the claim holder pays nothing out of pocket, and counsel keeps meaningful upside. Why sequence changes the outcome Here is the part that sounds counterintuitive until you run the math. A 33-to-40-percent contingency leaves you with 60 to 67 cents of every recovery dollar. A hybrid structure — where counsel takes a smaller contingency, often 15 to 25 percent, layered on a discounted hourly fee that a funder pays — frequently leaves the claim holder with 50 to 65 percent after the funder's return, and sometimes more. The precise economics depend on the size and shape of the case, but the direction is robust: full contingency is rarely the cheapest path for a strong claim. Sequence matters because leverage is perishable. Once you sign a full-contingency engagement letter, the firm has effectively "bought" the case for its own investment committee, and switching firms afterward is expensive and awkward. With a funder in place and a hybrid structure available, you keep your optionality — you can hire the very best trial firm for your matter, rather than the best firm that happened to be willing to shoulder full risk. A funder's "no" is also valuable There is a quieter benefit, too. When a sophisticated institutional investor is willing to deploy non-recourse capital against your claim, that is one of the strongest external validations of case quality you can get, and counsel reads it that way. But even a decline is useful: it tells you where the weaknesses are — thin damages, a collectability problem, an identification gap — while you can still fix them, and before you have committed to a firm. Either way, you learn something you would rather know now than a year in. The sequence to consider In practice it looks like this. Retain trade secret counsel on a focused, limited-scope engagement to run an initial case assessment under privilege. While that is underway, open a confidential conversation with one or more funders, sharing the same materials. Use the funder's view — its willingness to fund, its read on damages, its suggested economics — to inform your choice of trial counsel. Then interview firms with that information in hand and propose a hybrid structure supported by the funder. Done well, the engagement letter, the funding agreement, and your preservation protocols can all be signed within the same week. None of this is a knock on contingency counsel, many of whom are excellent. It is simply a reminder that the cheapest-looking option at signing is often the most expensive one at resolution — and that a short conversation, before you sign anything, can be worth a large share of the recovery. Go deeper with the Playbook. This post covers one piece of a much larger picture. For the full framework — what the law requires, what a strong pre-filing case looks like, how damages experts value these matters, how counsel fee structures change your economics, and how litigation finance fits in — read Certum Group's Trade Secret Litigation Playbook , our field guide for business owners and the counsel who advise them: certumgroup.com/the-trade-secret-playbook . And if you are evaluating a live dispute — or simply want to pressure-test what a matter is worth and how it might be funded — get in touch. A confidential conversation with Certum is free and carries no obligation, whether or not you ultimately seek funding. Reach us at certumgroup.com/contact-us .